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(en inglés, para no desentonar con tu blog)

About the resumé in MS Word … whilst i hate it and think that all people who use this format to send documents which are not meant to be modified in it should be shot, I have to disagree with applying the automatid-discard here.

As having ben job hunting recently, I can attest that 90% of the time, if you’re applying through some website or other (monster, dice, etc) they only give you the option to upload you resumé in either MS Word or plain text. In these cases, I would choose plain text, but that’s just me.

Of course, if you are giving your resumé to an actual human (vs. a computer script) then the format of choice can be indicative, since you can always *ask*, or send multiple formats.

But yeah, I totally agree on discarding people who apply for jobs with @hotmail addresses. Not because of hotmail itself, but because they should realize that sending random publicity along without realizing it is a no-no. I would even go as far as to tentatively say that anyone who is applying for a programming (or similar job) and cites “MS Word” or “Office” as a skill is also a no; if they say something like “ofimatic suits” (is that the English word?) I would let it slide even though it still shouldn’t be there (come on, if you’re applying to be a programmer, being able to use Word/OpenOffice/etc is supposed — or at least it’s supposed that you would be able to figure it out in 5 mins, so why say it?). I said I would accept the last wording because in certain places, when you’re writing your first resumé ever and ask people for advice, this is usually mentioned; and even though you should be able to figure that it is unnecessary, when you’re sending your first resumes looking for an entry level position or internship, chances are there won’t be much in it, and the temptation not to trim it (thinking that because it is longer it looks like you have done more) is too strong.

Also, another interesting thing (specially for those who are just starting out) is resume length? Yes, the PC answer is to “write as many pages as you need”, but in real life, a lot of people won’t accept more than 1 page for entry level stuff. So, is it really worth it to try to go into some kind of detail (interesting and relevant projects you did, with a small explanation and your role, etc), trying to anticipate things you will be surely asked about if you are ever interviewed? What do you think?

(en inglés, para no desentonar con tu blog)

About the resumé in MS Word … whilst i hate it and think that all people who use this format to send documents which are not meant to be modified in it should be shot, I have to disagree with applying the automatid-discard here.

As having ben job hunting recently, I can attest that 90% of the time, if you’re applying through some website or other (monster, dice, etc) they only give you the option to upload you resumé in either MS Word or plain text. In these cases, I would choose plain text, but that’s just me.

Of course, if you are giving your resumé to an actual human (vs. a computer script) then the format of choice can be indicative, since you can always *ask*, or send multiple formats.

But yeah, I totally agree on discarding people who apply for jobs with @hotmail addresses. Not because of hotmail itself, but because they should realize that sending random publicity along without realizing it is a no-no. I would even go as far as to tentatively say that anyone who is applying for a programming (or similar job) and cites “MS Word” or “Office” as a skill is also a no; if they say something like “ofimatic suits” (is that the English word?) I would let it slide even though it still shouldn’t be there (come on, if you’re applying to be a programmer, being able to use Word/OpenOffice/etc is supposed — or at least it’s supposed that you would be able to figure it out in 5 mins, so why say it?). I said I would accept the last wording because in certain places, when you’re writing your first resumé ever and ask people for advice, this is usually mentioned; and even though you should be able to figure that it is unnecessary, when you’re sending your first resumes looking for an entry level position or internship, chances are there won’t be much in it, and the temptation not to trim it (thinking that because it is longer it looks like you have done more) is too strong.

Also, another interesting thing (specially for those who are just starting out) is resume length? Yes, the PC answer is to “write as many pages as you need”, but in real life, a lot of people won’t accept more than 1 page for entry level stuff. So, is it really worth it to try to go into some kind of detail (interesting and relevant projects you did, with a small explanation and your role, etc), trying to anticipate things you will be surely asked about if you are ever interviewed? What do you think?

@Ana: An applicant with a hotmail email would make me smile (or grunt), but I will not discard him/her (though it switches some red lights on). Sending mails in ODF that could be perfectly written in plain is as bad as Word documents. If Mutt does not like it, neither do I.

Using a Hotmail account for applications might be weird, but assuming I can read MSWord is just rude. I would be more likely to discard these seconds applications.

Companies are not much better. I applied once for an internship and I had to upload especifically a Word document with my CV. Plain text was not even an option, neither PDF. I had to copy text from my PDF (I hadn’t my tex file with me at that time). It was annoying, but it became disgusting when I saw how they somehow parsed the DOC file and included in the form!

@Lu: We could talk long about resumes and applications, but I want recommend this article. Of course short explanation of relevant projects/courses is much better than the “skills” section, but sometimes beginners have no experience (indeed, that’s the main reason to apply for an internship).

One could assume that IT engineers have reasonable knowledge of offimatic suite. However, I’ve seen J2EE engineers copying tables from Word to Excel and back just because its easier to sort rows in Excel; or sending pictures in PowerPoint files because Outlook resizes them automatically. Should I assume that they are going to do better with OpenOffice/LaTeX? If so, should they include it in their resumes?

BTW: Ana, I like the new blog theme.

@Ana: An applicant with a hotmail email would make me smile (or grunt), but I will not discard him/her (though it switches some red lights on). Sending mails in ODF that could be perfectly written in plain is as bad as Word documents. If Mutt does not like it, neither do I.

Using a Hotmail account for applications might be weird, but assuming I can read MSWord is just rude. I would be more likely to discard these seconds applications.

Companies are not much better. I applied once for an internship and I had to upload especifically a Word document with my CV. Plain text was not even an option, neither PDF. I had to copy text from my PDF (I hadn’t my tex file with me at that time). It was annoying, but it became disgusting when I saw how they somehow parsed the DOC file and included in the form!

@Lu: We could talk long about resumes and applications, but I want recommend this article. Of course short explanation of relevant projects/courses is much better than the “skills” section, but sometimes beginners have no experience (indeed, that’s the main reason to apply for an internship).

One could assume that IT engineers have reasonable knowledge of offimatic suite. However, I’ve seen J2EE engineers copying tables from Word to Excel and back just because its easier to sort rows in Excel; or sending pictures in PowerPoint files because Outlook resizes them automatically. Should I assume that they are going to do better with OpenOffice/LaTeX? If so, should they include it in their resumes?

BTW: Ana, I like the new blog theme.

Ana, I totally agree with you. Especially those guys who use not only hotmail-addresses, but also ridiculous hotmail-addresses like “babe82@…” and so on. Very professional.

Ana, I totally agree with you. Especially those guys who use not only hotmail-addresses, but also ridiculous hotmail-addresses like “babe82@…” and so on. Very professional.

@Luis: Agreed, many companies are not better. OTOH, I would argue that if a company e.g. requires candidates to submit a resume in MS Word, then they automatically come across as a less desirable employer for a certain sector of the potential candidates. Recruiting works both ways: companies select candidates, but candidates get to select companies, too (and this is especially true for the really good candidates).

@Lu: On the “resume length” question, I would say “it depends”. Mostly, it depends on what is the content of said resume. I’ve seen new grads with no experience whatsoever (no internships, no spare time projects, nothing) go on for 5 pages about their grades in high school and how they like diving in their spare time. This is irrelevant information, if you are applying for an engineering position, so in this case too long is certainly *bad*. In other cases, people with no previous experience will give some (brief) details about the projects they did at school and their role in them, and also details of things they did in their spare time, that are relevant to the position they are applying for. In this case, the resume could have the same length as in the first case, but it would be ok, because it contains useful information for a resume screener to make a good, informed decision.

An example of a bad resume is one that, unfortunately, I saw over and over during last years’ recruiting trip to Spain: a resume from a new grad that just contains the degree they are about to finish, their personal details and maybe a comma-separated list of skills (where everything from C++ to XML to Office is lumped together, ugh); if we were lucky, they had the university transcript attached. Imagine the situation: you get a pile of resumes that all look exactly the same (name, finishing degree X at university Y, skill list, maybe transcript), and you can only interview a 1% of those people; how do you choose which ones, if they all look the same?

@Luis: Agreed, many companies are not better. OTOH, I would argue that if a company e.g. requires candidates to submit a resume in MS Word, then they automatically come across as a less desirable employer for a certain sector of the potential candidates. Recruiting works both ways: companies select candidates, but candidates get to select companies, too (and this is especially true for the really good candidates).

@Lu: On the “resume length” question, I would say “it depends”. Mostly, it depends on what is the content of said resume. I’ve seen new grads with no experience whatsoever (no internships, no spare time projects, nothing) go on for 5 pages about their grades in high school and how they like diving in their spare time. This is irrelevant information, if you are applying for an engineering position, so in this case too long is certainly *bad*. In other cases, people with no previous experience will give some (brief) details about the projects they did at school and their role in them, and also details of things they did in their spare time, that are relevant to the position they are applying for. In this case, the resume could have the same length as in the first case, but it would be ok, because it contains useful information for a resume screener to make a good, informed decision.

An example of a bad resume is one that, unfortunately, I saw over and over during last years’ recruiting trip to Spain: a resume from a new grad that just contains the degree they are about to finish, their personal details and maybe a comma-separated list of skills (where everything from C++ to XML to Office is lumped together, ugh); if we were lucky, they had the university transcript attached. Imagine the situation: you get a pile of resumes that all look exactly the same (name, finishing degree X at university Y, skill list, maybe transcript), and you can only interview a 1% of those people; how do you choose which ones, if they all look the same?